This post may contain affiliate links. Please read my disclosure.
Even though vitamins are viewed as a good “natural” option, this past week I experienced how dangerous they can be. As you can tell by the title of my post, this week I have been trying to recover from vitamin A toxicity due to taking too much vitamin A after my Naturopath prescribed it.
If you’ve read some of my previous posts, you know that I mostly follow a gluten free diet and take probiotics. After, my naturopath recommended taking fermented cod liver oil. I starting taking fermented cod liver (which is high in vitamin A). Over the past 3 years, I have been seeing a naturopathic doctor and go to get my blood checked by him regularly to see if I am low in any nutrients/vitamins. He is a big fan of getting blood work done to check for any vitamin deficiencies. If I’m ever low in a vitamin, he tells me that if I take that supplement then it will fix my acne.
At the beginning of last month, I got my blood checked for a variety of vitamins and a few other things, such as thyroid functioning.
According to my naturopathic doctor, the results of my blood test showed that I was low in vitamin A. My level was at 42mcg (picture of my blood test below). This number is at the lower end of the normal reference range, yet still within the normal range. My naturopath said that, that reference range is too broad and that my vitamin A level was really too low. He said that my low level of vitamin A was causing my acne and that if I take a vitamin A supplement, I won’t have acne any more.
I was surprised my vitamin A was at the lower end of the reference range because it has always been higher on every previous blood test, as I take 2 teaspoons of fermented cod liver oil (FCLO) daily, which has a good amount of vitamin A.
Why I got vitamin A toxicity
Since my vitamin A was low, my naturopath gave me a 100,000IU vitamin A supplement to add into my regimen. He said to take it once a day, everyday. I started taking it in addition to the FCLO (about 33,000IU vitamin A) he told me to take. After a few days of taking the large dose, I started to not feel good but, I just brushed it off. It wasn’t until 6 days after taking it, I started to get horrible symptoms (see my symptoms below) and I stopped taking all vitamin A.
Why did this happen to me? I thought, maybe it’s because I’m sensitive to the vitamin A and that’s why the symptoms are so bad. But, after reading about vitamin A online, I learned that he had given me a toxic dose.
When I thought back, none of this made sense to me and it was odd that my vitamin A came out so low because I was taking FCLO. One thing that happened concerned me though, I remembered that previous times I had tested my vitamin A, the person drawing the blood immediately wrapped the vial in foil and told me that it shouldn’t be exposed to the light as it could cause the test to be inaccurate.
Well, this last time I went to the blood drawing at the hospital, the phlebotomist, did not cover the vial at all and left it exposed to the bright fluorescent lights in the room. I thought that may have been the reason the test was inaccurate. Studies show that when the blood vial is exposed to light, it decreases the accuracy of the measurement.
Then, after a few more weeks of researching vitamin A toxicity, I learned that all blood tests for vitamin A are NOT ACCURATE!!!! They’re not an accurate representation of the amount in your system. The levels of retinol in your blood fluctuate all the time. You can take the test one day and have high number, take it the next day and have a low number. I found studies from the ’90’s that showed that patients experiencing severe vitamin A toxicity even had vitamin A blood test results within the normal or low range.
I now believe that my vitamin A level was most likely normal already and my naturopath prescribing the high dose of vitamin A caused me to get vitamin A toxicity.
What amount causes vitamin A toxicity?
There’s a lot of contradictory information online about how much vitamin A is safe to take. Even though, 100,000IU is a very high dose, most say that it doesn’t cause vitamin A toxicity unless you take it long term. However, for me it did!
Toxicity occurs with the following doses:
For adults– 25,000 IU per kg of body weight (acute-taken at one time)
-4,000 IU per kg of body weight (chronic-taken over several months)
For children– More than 300,000 IU (acute- taken at one time)
-More than 100,000 IU (chronic-taken over several months)
Even though these are the typical doses that can cause vitamin A toxicity that does not mean that lower doses cannot cause it or the symptoms. Vitamin A is a fat-soluble vitamin, which means that excess of it gets stored in your liver and fatty cells for long periods of time so it can build up in the body and it does not leave the body quickly.
My symptoms- How I found out the vitamin was the cause
During the first few days of taking the Vitamin A supplement, I felt like I had a fast heart rate but, for absolutely no reason. I brushed it off for a few days. I even looked up a connection between heart rate and vitamin A, but found no information so I thought it couldn’t be connected. There isn’t much information online about vitamin A toxicity and all the symptoms.
Then, suddenly on the 6th day of taking the vitamin A, after dinner I started to feel really dizzy, I had difficulty breathing, felt pressure on my head, bright lights bothered me, and my vision seemed off. I immediately stopped taking all vitamin A.
What I did to Treat it
I went to two doctors to see if there was anything I could do to get the vitamin A out of my system faster and feel better. Their response was to just wait it out because it is a fat soluble vitamin. They said there isn’t much you can do. This was frustrating, I felt so terrible and to hear that I have to suffer with these symptoms and there was nothing I can do to get better faster made it even worse.
I researched vitamin A toxicity online to see what I could do and the only studies I found were mostly related to vitamin A toxicity in animals, but I figured the information and treatments may be worth a try. So here they are, this is what I did/am doing:
- Taking zinc (supposed to help counteract)
- Taking vitamin C and eating a lot of foods high in vitamin C (also supposed to help counteract)
- Taking Vitamin E -I just started this today, so I can’t say whether it’s helping or not yet but, this study found in rabbits that it counteracted the vitamin A toxicity effects.
- Drinking a lot of water- Not sure how much this helps but, I do feel better staying hydrated and I figure it must help to just flush everything out of my system.
- Eating good meals that have little to no vitamin A
- Trying to exercise/move around to increase my metabolism as much as possible, despite feeling bad.
- Doing a magnesium or Epsom salt foot bath 2 times a day
How I’m doing now:
Today is the 5th day since I stopped taking the vitamin A supplement. I am feeling better since the first (worst) night I realized I had vitamin A toxicity, but still not feeling back to normal. My vision is still off, I feel dizzy, and off balance. I’m hoping that with each day I will start gradually feeling back to normal as the vitamin A decreases.
I’ll keep you posted on my progress with recovering from vitamin A toxicity.
What kind of foods are you eating daily?I mean Vitamin A in any kind?I eat chinese rice pasta,pommegranates,spelled porridge.They don’t contain any kind of vitamin A
It’s pretty much impossible to eat zero vitamin A. I just tried to eat things with the lowest amount possible and avoided any foods high in vitamin A for about 2 years.
Hi Lori.My main problem right now is total lack of appetite and constipation .Oh by the way I had the visit to neprologist who saw my AST and ALT levels .They were in norm.Does it mean that my liver is not damaged ?I don’t want to make another tests because it makes me nervous and my family has enough of this.Doctors even suggested to send me for psychiatric evaluation as the think my main problem is thinking too much about this situation.Sometimes it is so bad that my father gets attacks of some kind because he has enough of my hysteria .Oh by the way today I went to hepatologist who saw victims of hypervitaminosis A they had yellow skin.I don’t have .I will have USG to check out if there is something wrong with my organs I don’t think they will find anything .You said you were taking 100000 IU of Vitamin A daily.For how long? Did you check out your liver enzymes?I guess they were high but nothing really bad happened to your liver.Did you lost your appetite and have problems with constipation?
My liver enzymes were within the normal range. I’m not sure what the long term effects are though. I didn’t have constipation. I had diarrhea and weight loss.
http://www.eisai.com/news/news201165.html
Product that cured va toxicity for me.
It literally prevents absorption and retention of vitamin A. By inhibiting retinyl esters from forming.
Nothing else worked.
How is your gut health now?
Hi SK – what were your toxicity symptoms that were cured by this medicine?
All of it?
Bad taste from va rich foods.
Low appetite.
Joint and bone pain and weakness.
Muscular weakness.
Slow digestion.
Cranial pressure. This peculiar kind of va toxicity headache.
Dry flaking skin.
Hair loss.
Faxial flushing.
Tinnitus.
Mood… irritability.
Now none.
See the problem is that this medication is not available. I found it in lotion form on Amazon. That is all. I am yet to see it in tablet form elsewhere. if it available only by prescription in Japan? Or can you get it over the counter?
Please let me know
Thanks
I believe it must be ingested to have the desired effect systemically and in the GI tract.
The mechanism of action is that GGA (active substance) blocks vitamin a retention and absorption. What seems to happen is that you flush out stored retinoids while ingested retinoids just pass through.
It has been documented in studies that 1. GGA has this effect and 2. This mechanism can cause vitamin a deficiency. (inhibition of LRAT/ARAT enzymes of retinol esterification).
The medicine is available OTC. In virtually every medicine or “health” shop here.
In most big cities these meds are even sold in convenience stores like 7 Eleven.
And it’s very strong. The package said to use “3x per day” but I find even one tablet of 40 mg relieves my symptoms. Completely.
The med is nr 19 on this list:
https://www.tsunagujapan.com/50-medicines-and-beauty-products-from-drug-stores-in-japan-picked-by-japanese-pharmacists/
“Selbelle is a drug often prescribed by hospitals. It contains the ingredient teprenone ”
It’s as easy to buy here as aspirin in the US.
Shoot. I ran that link you sent through google translate and from what I understand, there is no “buy” link on the website. Either that or my google translate isn’t working properly
https://www.mimaki-family-japan.com/item/detail?item_prefix=TF&item_code=002558&item_branch=001
This is what I found. Its $100 for 100 tablets. which is costly but I’ll give anything a try
Do you take one tablet of this everyday? I figure that one should take it until the symptoms of vitamin a poisoning subside completely and then stop taking it. just resume normal day to day living. what was the exact dosage regimen that you took to recover completely?
If you take this everyday, you could end up with vitamin a deficiency. which is very bad I imagine
thoughts?
If you google “selbex” it seems to be the same thing and can be ordered from Japan. The active ingredient is teprenone.
As soon as I started taking them all symptoms were gone.
It’s really cheap to purchase here and I plan to stock up before I go back to Europe. Buying at least a year’s supply of it.
Price here is like 15 usd for 45 tablets. Cheap….
The active ingredient is Teprenone / Geranylgeranylacetone. Also called Selbex. Any source of it would work.
I used 160 mg per day initially. But it caused some side effects and it turns out 40 mg just works as good, if not better.
Considering the entire RDI of vitamin A is 900 micgrograms per day this makes total sense. As all GGA does is interfere with VA absorption and metabolism.
Yes it could cause VA deficiency. But the signs of that would be obvious and the danger of it doesn’t come close to the danger or Vitamin a toxicity at the degree I was facing.
Toxicity may cause death or just make you really miserable.
Deficiency? Easily corrected. Just stop using the tablets and eat something…
I still recommend anyone with VA toxicity to try Selbelle/ Teprenone if you can acquire it.
The form I use is the one in the yellow packets, at 1-2x per day. (40-75 mg teprenone total) and I am completely asymptomatic since starting.
http://www.i-no-science.com/product/selbellet/index.php
If you are in JP this product is in all med shops.
Hope you can find some source of it though.
Selbelle is available from Ebay sellers.
Hello friends,
EVERY day I think of you all and PRAY for you. I PRAY each day you feel better and have the wisdom and patience to fight this storm. My heart aches because I am STILL struggling with this and SO many others are too.
I am thankful for all your comments and suggestions. I read them every day….
Keep them coming!
Do any of you have bone pain? Or tingling in your hands/feet?
It seems my symptoms are always changing. The pressure in my head is better and eyes are getting better but my joints seem sore. I don’t understand.
Any insight would be great!
Thank you. J
So According to this studies the more fat you have in your organism the better is for you when you overdose vitamin A .I have lot of body fat (87 kg) for me to get chronic toxicity it would require at least 350000 IU of Vitamin A taken for few months .Up to 20 % of vitamin A is stored in rest of fat cells 80 % in liver .Oh by the way it would be really nice to create some kind of chat for people affected in this situation.It’s the best thing to stick together and help yourself in this hard situation .I can confirm that my head pressure is already reduced .
Hi again guys,
Just thought I’d make a post to contribute to your discussion.
I have suffered from Chronic va toxicity for 4 years. I have a lot of experience.
What you and me both are looking for a is a medicine to be used for this condition that is curative.
I tried PPC. I tried Taurine.
At low and high doses. Over an extended period of time.
Neither will be curative. I can guarantee that.
Taurine loses effect and doesn’t significantly contribute to recovery.
Neither does PPC.
What has helped me the most is what I am currently using.
I am using Geranylgeranylacetone (GGA) also called Teprenone.
I live in Japan at the moment where this medicine is commonly used.
What it does is inhibit retinol esterification enzymes LRAT / ARAT.
And it removes symptoms completely.
I can finally eat whatever I want without any symptoms whatsoever.
Eggs dairy and lots of green veggies. Doesn’t matter. No symptoms anymore.
Nothing else I have tried has had this effect.
Can discuss further if anyone is interested.
But PPC and Taurine will not solve the problem.
I tried both for 6 months and it made no significant difference.
Hey, could I get your email? Or at least your dosing protocol? thanks
Hi .I’m Tom and I have problem with Vitamin A Cod liver capsules.I Bought many supplements to improve my health .I have ingested 360000 IU (36 capsules each 10000 IU sometimes 3 capsules a day sometimes four times and two I think over 16 days) I was also taking vitamin D3 5000 IU in recommended doses.Since I stopped using vitamins 9 days ago and I have sudden loss of appetite ,high blood pressure ,constipation .My doctor called it withdrawal symptoms .Does anyone have similar symptoms?I don’t have problems with urinating .Also my biliburin level is 42 umol/dl (however sample was taken when I was fasting almost 24 or more hours and studies show that fasting increases total bilirubin in blood).I didn’t have any symptoms like this during taking supplements only after stopping taking it (I also toke l carnitine and l citruline and icariin but in normal doses and powder and shilajit).How long does it take for things to improve? Do you have very high pressure days after stopping supplementation?
I have been taking a taurine supplement (1000 mg, 2-3 times per day) for the past 2 days and can confirm that my symptoms of Vitamin A toxicity have improved. They are still there for now, but less frequent and less intense.
The wikipedia article on hypervitaminosis A also describes the following treatment for vitamin A overdose. Has anyone tried this? I found some PPC supplements online and am thinking of trying this as well.
“Phosphatidylcholine (in the form of PPC or DLPC), the substrate for Lecithin retinol acyltransferase, which converts retinol into Retinyl esters (the storage forms of vitamin A).”
Awesome to hear! I am considering ppc. I have been taking taurine and much of my symptoms seem to be gone. I will keep you posted. Let me know if in a few days, taurine clears up your symptoms entirely
greg would you be open to giving me your email? I am eager to know if the taurine works out for you and how your blood tests look in the long run
Also, is the idea that the PPC converts the retinol in your bloodstream back into the storage forms? meaning it would only help for the time that you take it? Please let me know
Hi Bob – yes, I believe that is how PPC works but I haven’t been able to find any further information about it. I ordered some supplements so will let you know how it goes.
I would be happy to compare notes by email – but do you know if there is a way we can exchange email addresses without posting it on a public forum?
Greg
I think you could put in a burner email. Or if you want we could just go back and forth. anytime you reply it notifies my email. so this would serve the same effect. I feel that taurine removed most of the negative symptoms from me. But that is just my opinion. I am currently on milk thistle, PPC, and taurine. I am feeling better but not 100%. potential kidney and liver issues caused by the vitamin a and hypercalcemia? Will update
Thanks
Bob
Hi Bob – do you want to try sending me an email at [email protected]?
I’ve been suffering from vitamin a toxicity symptoms for about two weeks now (anxiety, heart flutter, dizziness, muscle fatigue), and have been on taurine (with milk thistle) for 4 days now. I would say the symptoms are about 50% better since I started the taurine. I plan to add the PPC starting today as well. When did you start on the PPC?
will email you soon!
Hi Greg .I’m Tom and I’m suffering from the same symptoms after stopping using Vitamin A and D supplements.What was your dose of Vitamin A and how long did you take it?Do you measured your serum VItamin A levels and total calcium levels.I will send you a Email and we will talk.It gaves me hope that I’m not the only one with same problem
I went for a follow up serum A level blood test yesterday. Medicare would not pay for it. They tried every possible coding and they kept refusing to pay…yet they paid back in September.
Hi Rick how much vitamin A did you take?You think I should be fine in few months after stopping taking Vitamin A supplements .I stopped taking it 2 weeks ago I think in most cases it takes longer time (2 months ) to recover (360000 IU over 16 days so not that extreme)
Hi Tom, I was taking an eye support supplement w/ 10,000 IU per day (5K IU A, the other 5K IU was beta carotene). Plus I was taking an 8 supplement once a week of 8K IU. Then there is the food I was consuming (butter, eggs, cheeses, plus veggies w/beta carotene). I’ve had people try .tell me that that is not enough to become toxic but I have had two eye doctors, an osteopathic physician and a chiropractor all tell me that it absolutely could as everybody is different, I followed this regimen for almost 2 full years.
I have been virtually A free since August and feel absolutely no difference. Pressure still in my head…dizziness, tremors/palpitations around the heart. It is awful.
Hey, so I saw one other person on here comment, “LeRoy”. he claimed that taurine alleviates vitamin a toxicity symptoms
I also read this on the wiki page:
Taurine significantly reduces toxic effects in rats.[45] Retinoids can be conjugated by taurine and other substances. Significant amounts of retinotaurine are excreted in the bile,[46] and this retinol conjugate is thought to be an excretory form, as it has little biological activity.[47]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_A#Signs_and_symptoms
I tried it myself and have been taking taurine for a matter of weeks now. many of the symptoms decrease significantly. just thought that I would throw this out there. It seems to work for many of the internets. I would love someone to comment on my post if it worked for them. but I saw a big difference in about 24-48 hours. I continue to see benefits for weeks now. I am not sure it alleviates it completely. But it noticeably helps with no real side effects
What is the dosage?
The max dosage I do is 10 grams. Yes 10 grams. It seems like a lot but I am going to take this for the next year or so just to ensure vitamin a is out of my system. There was no clear dosages listed online. Beyond 10 grams in my experimentation gives me the runs
10 grams is the max dosage I can physically take with no side effects so I think I will stick to that. But 1-3 grams I think is what has been studied. Let me know your results if you try it. I tried everything, and I mean EVERYTHINNG and this worked really well. I am dying to know if it’s placebo and want on other persons findings to confirm
Thanks for sharing! So glad it is helping you.
The dizziness and head pressure have not improved since I stopped taking Vitamin A. A chiropractor has relieved some issues around the head but I still have problems with balance, fluttering and spasms. My new Rx for my glasses have wreaked havoc on my eyes. I was sent to a behavioral optometrist but he found nothing wrong that was beyond the standard issues with my eyes. He was receptive to the Vitamin A toxicity, and suggested that I continue to pursue that tact. He also felt a lot of the pressure may be related to stress and anxiety.
Yes. But the stress and anxiety is most likely caused by va toxicity?
See other reports of increased stress.
Hi Sam. My name is Ashley and Im beginning to think I will have a long road to recovery. I have a prescription for a low dose of Xanax which I never ever take except for when I go to the dentist. I usually enjoy a nice glass of wine after work and school. My anxiety is creating sheer panic within my body. Would I be totally taxing my liver if a took half of a 0.25 xanax?
Many thanks,
Ashley
I completely agree, Sam! 🙂
Thank you for the update. Hope you feel better soon. Glad to hear the chiropractor was able to help a little.
Hello Lori! I’m so glad I came across your article and I’m having all of the symptoms your having. However I was only taking a retin a cream called trentinoin (spl?) and also 1500 iu each day. I took this for maybe 10 days and began to have vision changes (including contracted pupils) along with dizziness, fatigue, brain fog, and headaches. Oh and loads of anxiety! I quit the vitamin a cream and vitamin I was taking but we’re those sources of vitamin a enough to cause those symptoms? Thank you
Hi Ashley, hope you feel better soon! Several people have had vitamin A toxicity from vitamin A creams alone. 1500IU is under the RDA. That’s good you didn’t take a super high dose. Have all your symptoms subsided yet?
Hi Lori! My symptoms are better but not gone. I am experiencing subtle dizziness and super mild head “aches” or pressure. I am not having the extreme symptoms I was experiencing upon stopping the trentinoin. I am just nursing myself. Like you I have my epsom salt baths or foot soaks along with magnesium and vitamin c. I am reading the comments from Greg Sam and Rick to try Taurine or the ppc. How are you now? I know it’s been over a year or two?
Thanks,
Ashley
Ashley
I tried taurine and PPC. Both improved symptoms markedly
Taurine more so
After I took taurine and PPC continually I went a doctor and got a full blood panel. My kidney and liver may have been off. I am going to an acupuncturist and I am seeing improvements. This just worked for me. It seems like more serious cases are not as fortunate
Hi Ashley, hope you’re feeling better. It’s been 3 years now and I’m doing great! I still think I have IBS from it though, not sure that will ever go away.
Hey again guys,
Just thought I’d make one last recommendation for this.
In case anyone in need looks here.
Proof that Carotene to retinol conversion is inhibited by iron chelators:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095528630100184X
http://m.jbc.org/content/277/26/23942.full
I suggest you use IP6 since it is the most potent natural iron chelator known.
It is extracted from rice bran. And the only known side effects are due to its’ iron chelating effect.
I am using it at the moment and symptoms are reduced significantly.
I suggest you buy at Iherb.com.
I used Jarrow’s product.
I know I made some other recommendations and posts of theories.
They turned out to be ineffective. My apologies.
But this one works. Trial and error I guess.
Hey bud
Thanks for the information
I just wanted to know how is this drug working out for you so far ?
I still have some mild persistent symptoms . Would really like to try this out if it offers some help .
A reply would be appreciated
Thanks
I am three days into IP6 so it is too early to tell. I am 2+ months into being Vitamin A free and I feel no improvements at all. In fact I have found some issues with fluttering in my chest that are recent. It tends to crop up when I get emotional. I have a quick gasp for air then I get dizzy from the pressure increase in my head. I also feel pressure changes when I am napping or trying to go to sleep, often like a tremor or a spasm.
Anyone experiencing this or should I start looking elsewhere?
Hey guys,
This post is just addressed at anyone interested in Science and actually solving the problem of VA toxicity.
I have a hypothesis about something that could help eliminate symptoms.
I believe we can use IP-6 (health supplement) to partially or completely inhibit Carotene to Retinol conversion. Thus preventing most of the symptoms.
In my experience, the difficult part isn’t avoiding retinol. That’s easy, just don’t eat eggs or dairy.
The difficult part is avoiding Carotene. Vegetable sources of VA.
Source of ip6:
http://Www.iherb.com
It’s supposedly free of side effects.
The science behind it and why it would work:
Carotene conversion is dependent on Fe 2+ (ferrous iron) and takes place mainly in the intestines.
Ip6 is the strongest known iron chelator of natural origin.
It is extracted from Brown Rice Bran.
*This is why gastric acid inhibitors such as Proton pump inhibitors and Antacids help: they inhibit iron absorption and activation (conversion from Fe 3+ to Fe 2+) which is dependent on gastric acid.
*It is also why red meat makes the symptoms worse. Because it is a rich source of Fe 2+ which increases carotene conversion.
Brian, the biochemist in this comment section has also said repeatedly that iron aggravares the problem.
So what does ip6 (Inositol hexaphosphate) do?
It does the opposite.
It specifically binds to and chelates Fe 2+. Thus preventing carotene to retinol conversion, decreasing ROS, and contributes to symptom relief and recovery through multiple mechanisms.
Ip6 is even used in Iron overload disorders to lower ferritin and blood iron concentrations.
I’m too lazy to dig up studies to post for you all since I doubt anyone reads it.
But if you want to research it more on your own or simply try it out I will post some links:
http://Www.pubmed.com (search for inositol hexaphosphate and iron)
The enzyme we want to inhibit: Carotene Monoxygenase. Which is dependent on iron as Fe 2+.
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/intenz/query?cmd=SearchEC&ec=1.13.11.63
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12038473 (One of many studies showing carotene conversion is dependent on iron concentration, mainly in the intestines)
https://www.google.com.tw/search?client=ms-android-samsung&ei=Cbb2We6uHcjp0ATZ35jQDA&q=inositol+hexaphosphate++iron&oq=inositol+hexaphosphate++iron&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.3..0i30k1l2.18391.18391.0.18632.1.1.0.0.0.0.163.163.0j1.1.0….0…1.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..0.1.162….0.36ukkGzVDtA
(Find info on your own)
http://ip-6.net/The_Science.html
(By binding with and hence inactivating Fe2+… ip6 mechanism of action.)
Where to buy it:
https://www.iherb.com/search?kw=Ip6
So if you want to solve the problem: look into this. Or discuss it.
I think in theory, this is a good idea but we DO NEED Vitamin A. The key is to remove the toxic build up and then return to a normal Vitamin A levels. You need to consume A LOT dairy and eggs to become toxic. The amount you consume will be right around the RDA. The body makes A from beta carotene, but ONLY what it needs. The body eliminates the rest. You cannot get toxic on beta carotene.
It has been 2 months since I stopped taking any foods and supplements with A and beta carotene and I have yet to see a reduction in symptoms. It has been 5 weeks since I took a blood test for vitamin A levels, which were normal. I want to go for another test in 3 weeks to see if my A levels have maintained, dipped or am now at a deficient level to potentially rule out that this is toxicity at all.
There is a naturopath I know who does “bioenergy” and says the can definitely conclude Vitamin A toxicity. Cannot find much information on it to see if the test is worth it…and he won’t tell me the cost.
Yeah. Well, I have more than enough of it and it’s destroying my life.
Can’t consume any amount, even of carotene, without symptoms.
I think I’ll try IP6 with meals to inhibit carotene conversion. Since my body is doing a shitty job of following the science books.
It’s been a month or so since I gave up Vitamin A and I am NOT seeing any signs of improvement. Today I was so dizzy and had so much pressure in my head that I probably should not have been driving. Feeling disoriented and clumsy around the apartment, too. I got a new pair of glasses and thought the bifocals were off but they said that is not the case.
There is a diagnosis for this: https://nei.nih.gov/health/iih/intracranial
My osteopath thinks her treatments are causing a change in the brain-eye connection that is creating this as well and thinks I need vision therapy — expensive and not covered by insurance.
I honestly do not know how I got through today without causing a car accident.
Hi Rick
I am not here to disappoint you , but rather tell you a fact , After giving up vitamin A symptoms for couple of first months get worsen like it did for me . first 6 months were horrible after I completely stopped vitamin A from supplements and as well as diet .
I have been patient since past 1 year in hope that I would one day recover completely . I am 90% free from symptoms and even if symptoms come back they are not that severe . I believe for me it would take another 3-4 months to be completely free from toxicity , but even after that I am planning to be on low vitamin A diet for another year in order not to be on the verge of getting toxicity again
Only patience can help
Dan,
In 1999, I came down with Hep-A. I knew I was going to get better after 6-8 weeks. I slept, watched TV but generally felt weak and tired all the time. It was horrible. With A Toxicity, I don’t know much because the medical professionals don’t. You’re not disappointing me. You are reassuring me. I thank you for that.
Hi there. My naturopath said to take 50000 iu for few months. And then lower dosage. (Im Also to take d,k,e) they are all fat soluble too.. so maybe A beta carotene is better? And I’d need to eat foods containing fatbsolublea. Or like taking those other vitamins with it should be ok. Right?
She didn’t test me for any vitamin deficiancy. I know vitamin A has benefits and probably to help immune system and repair sells.. but I’m I’m concerned about a huge dosage for myself. I’m 117-120 pounds 30 y.o woman.. I have psoriosis. I stressed a lot before. Some good sencetivity. I possibly might start itching do to certain foods I’d eat…. So I’ve been doing a study. There is fat soluble beef liver, fish liver oil, caratone with palmitite(which I heard isn’t best for you either) or carotene by it self there is. I know over dosage of even natural can cause liver and toxicity.. can natural vitamin A like animal oil/fish liver based oil cause liver problems too??? .I’ve taken before multi prenatol vitamins with my fist pregnancy a lot. And some with 2nd. Now I moved to raw garden of Life it has carotene as vitamin A.anyways..
..does this sound to much of a dosage? And I’m already concerned about my liver function do to certain symptoms I have or maybe it’s hpylori. I don’t know. If I’d take vitamin A what would be a good normal dosage and made from what for a adult 117-120 pounds 30 years old. Based on your studies?
Hi, I see a chiropractor and an osteopathic physician. They both are wary of supplementing any vitamin that is fat soluble due to the risks of toxicity. Both have said that Vitamin A is the one vitamin that you should not need to supplement if you are getting enough of it in your diet, and it doesn’t have to be Vitamin A. The beta carotene will suffice. The body will convert that to A and the rest will get eliminated. There will be no toxic build up to beta carotene.
I would never ever take over the RDA amount for vitamin A again. It’s scary that naturopaths recommend taking high amounts 🙁
I honesty do not know why he/she would recommend supplementing in the first place. Low normal is still normal. You could have raised the A a bit by adding foods with beta carotene into your diet as well as eggs and butter,
Completely agree Rick! I believed him when he said my level was low and I needed to increase my vitamin A.
OMG I hope you got rid of that QUACK doctor!
Hey guys,
I have suffered with chronic va toxicity for 4 years now.
And yes, it is diagnosed.
I keep researching and experimenting safely in the hopes of finding something that facilitates recovery.
I am making this post for one single reason:
Sharing a recommendation of what has helped me the most.
1. Va free diet. Or low va diet.
Of course.
2. Keeping VD levels optimal.
Optimal, that is. Not excessive.
I recommens you ONLY use sun exposure and dietary sources of VD.
Every supplement has side effects on its own and that goes for VD too.
Supplements are not equivalent to natural sources.
3. CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS.
I stumbled upon this herb two weeks ago and it is absolutely amazing.
I have tried every possible pharmacologic mechanism, herb, supplement under the sun by now. And even many pharmaceuticals.
And nothing comes close to this one.
I highly recommend it. In 4 years of research I haven’t found anything like it.
Optimal dose: 1-1.5g before first meal of the day.
You may find another dosing regimen more effective though.
But this herb is completely safe. No toxicity has been found in any of the studies on it.
What it does?
Inhibits enterohepatic reabsorption of bile acids. Thus increasing losses of VA via biliary excretion.
This also results in inhibited absorption of VA, as absorption is dependent on bile acids.
Also acts as a proton pump inhibitor thereby decreasing carotene comversion.
But it works. And it’s safe.
4. Capsaicin.
As I said before, this eliminates intense acute toxicity.
But it’s not a cure for chronic cases.
It just eliminates all the retinol from the blood that is NOT bound to RBP. I.e. toxic amounts.
It does so by inducing CYP3a4 and other CYPs/enzymes.
Products I used:
https://www.iherb.com/pr/primaforce-cissus-1000-mg-120-veggie-caps/56644?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI28vX9qf51gIVSBdoCh1YRgJ-EAAYASAAEgIoP_D_BwE
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Christopher-s-Original-Formulas-Hot-Cayenne-Extract-1-fl-oz-30-ml/15032
Notes:
*Capsaicin you could just as easily buy at the supermarket though. Just chop up the strongeat chili you can find and eat it. Acute toxicity will be cleared in 1h. Guaranteed.
*For cissus quadrangularis: I would recommend using a powdered extract with no other ingredients for safe and sustainable use. The product I recommended has magnesium added, which causes some stress in my experience. Get a powdered extract or product with no other ingredients.
This post is, again, only for sharing what has been most effective to me.
Hope it helps someone.
Good luck all!
Sam
RE: CISSUS QUADRANGULARIS
How is this helping you?
Lower absorption of vitamin A.
Decreased symptoms.
Faster elimination of toxic amounts and symptoms when they do occur.
My worst symptom has been facial flushing and some others.
All these symptoms are reduced by… well 80% or so by this one.
And this has happened within the last two weeks and you are certain that it is this product that is relieving symptoms?
It looks like it is used for bodybuilding above everything else.
It has been around 12 months and I still have some mild symptoms … I have been off Vitamin A diet since , but I have not completely healed . Nevertheless I have seen gradual improvement in symptoms and I am sure one day it will be all fine .
Yes I experienced head pressure which happens due to increase of cerebrospinal fluid and it was severe during first few months ( 4-5 ) months .
Dizziness is still there , but has gradually been better . I get more dizzy when I enter a super market/shop with florescent lights don’t know the reason behind it yet ( brian?) .
I will try to list all the symptoms I experienced so far
Anxiety / Panic
Racing thoughts
Nervousness
Confusion
Mood Swings
Depression
Memory issues
Slurry speech
Blurry vision ( myopia, but eyesight was good before overdose this is again temporary takes about 6-7 to go away )
IBS ( due to pathological anxiety symptoms )
Occult Blood / Hemorrhoids
Metallic taste ( first few weeks only )
Headache
Rapid Heartbeat
Digestion Problem
Extreme fatigue ( ruled out hypothyroidism , hyperthyroidism and blood sugar ( hypoglycemia )
breathlessness ( for first month, 1-2 times in a day )
All I have learned it takes a lot of time to recover and one has to go though that . Eliminate all vitamin A , but make sure you eat balanced diet
Oh man, that’s insane! Glad to see you’re doing better.
I’ve experienced most of these same symptoms, but some of the mood/depression issues were there before I had the issues with A. I do get some breathlessness, too. The memory issues are there, too. My eyesight in my left eye was 20/50 in my left eye in June. Now in October it is 20/80! Ridiculous!
Glad you’re feeling better! I had pretty much all the same symptoms.
Hey everyone,
It’s been a month since I eliminated Vitamin A from my diet — and have not seen any improvements. The pressure in my head is still there and at times it is more than I can stand. Active Release Therapy does not seem to help, though it is early days. I get a flutter in my chest below the left pec that leaves me gasping for air for a second — panic like. It is not near the heart. My osteopath says that is a digestive issue.
To anyone who has had head pressure (Brian, et al), when did you first notice improvements in that area?
Also a lot of dizziness still remains. I got a new pair of glasses with a new Rx and thought that might alleviate some things, especially the vertigo but it has not helped. I walked into Walmart yesterday and from the moment I entered until the moment I walked out, I felt like I was in another dimension. Horrible!
How is everyone else coping?
Hey Rick,
I’m sorry to hear you’re not feeling much improvement yet. It’s been two months since I’ve stopped Vit A supplements, and I have good and bad days with it. I started taking Vit D a couple weeks ago as I read it it competes with Vit A (plus I’m deficient in vit D) and it seems to be helping pretty well. Not to give too much information on this, but I’ve noticed I am far worse during my monthly cycle which I think has to do with increased circulation with the liver at that time. When I eat red meat, I also seem to have more symptoms, which I am guessing is associated with the iron in it as a slow release iron supplement previously worsened a lot of my Vit A symptoms. Last but not least, I have been going to physical therapy once a week for my hip, and after I leave there (they massage the muscles often) it seems like it stirs up some of the Vit A (guessing since it is fat soluble?) Curious to see what others have been doing!
I get concerned with D because the information is all over the place regarding dosages. I can certainly see where massage can make things worse as I think it would stimulate movement of toxins, etc. within the body. I recall an article about a woman with chronic fatigue syndrome who felt her problems got worse after massage. But in the long run, it may stimulate healing by moving those toxins through the body and out.
I believe that the “Vitamin D prevents Vitamin A toxicity and vice versa” hypothesis is only partially correct. It is true that they are synergistic in some ways and are competitive in other ways. However, vitamin D will only address these specific aspects. It will not address the fact that you have surpassed your liver’s ability to produce retinol-binding protein and it will not prevent the extreme oxidative stress caused by the free vitamin A that is not bound to retinol-binding protein.
Keep in mind that, while I was taking 100,000 IU of Vitamin A per day for 5 weeks, I was also taking 20-30,000 IU of vitamin D3 per day, and I had been taking 10,000-15,000 IU of vitamin D3 per day for about a year before I ever took any vitamin A. Vitamin D did absolutely nothing to relieve the symptoms of hypervitaminosis A. Literally nothing I did helped. Time is the only thing that has made me better.
Brian, you said previously that it took 3-4 months before you started to feel better. Was it gradual or did you wake up one morning and realize that you felt better?
It was and is still gradual. Still can’t tolerate either retinol or beta carotene. The one improvement I have seen is that I can now tolerate things that easily oxidize with fewer problems (things like polyunsaturated fats and alcohol).
Steady as she goes as they say. Generally, the timeline to clear the stored A is about a year. So, I am not going to worry too much until that time.
Brian, thanks for your feedback. I will continue to supplement the vitamin d as it is my only hope at this point.
Sure. Yeah, the vitamin D won’t hurt you as long as you don’t overdo it. I recommend checking your vitamin D blood levels every 3 months just to make sure. Even if the doctor won’t do it, you can get them checked for like 30 bucks at a clinic. It’s pretty easy.
Mine were at 142 ng/ml at the same time that I had hyperviatminosis A. Technically, they weren’t toxic and my calcium was normal. But, they were starting to approach the toxic range.
Hey brian
what do you think about using Geranylgeranylacetone /teprenone / selbex for treatment ?
Thanks !
I think it took at least a few months before my head pressure improved.
Can someone please tell me if I can take vit.C ? Orange juice or grapefruit juice. How does it react to the VitA?
I had to go into the doctor because of a high fever and found I had a double ear infection with bronchitis. I knew my immune system was low but did not know what to do.
Any suggestions on taking vitC?
I felt like I was getting better but my high fever is stirring up the pressure on my brain again.
Thank you
Why go through the trouble with the doctors and their tests if they can’t help you in any way?
They have nothing to prescribe for VA toxicity in either case.
Solutions that I have found so far (after 4 years):
1. Elimination diet.
No intake of it.
Lower insulin levels also help. Since the metabolic state of elimination instead of retention is what drives recovery.
2. Capsaicin for acute toxicity.
3. Tamoxifen 10 mg every or every other day for chronic toxicity.
I am using this now. And can honestly say that it works.
In theory it induces dehydrogenases and cyp in the liver which are rate-limiting in elimination.
Don’t use capsaicin with other treatments. As it will cause the other drugs to be eliminated.
The reason you go to a doctor is to rule out other things. When it comes to A toxicity, best anyone can do is assume you have it. Then you monitor the blood levels. If you go on a ZERO A Elimination Diet, then you monitor A levels in the blood. If the levels are in the normal range even though you are free from Vitamin A, then you can assume you are still flushing it out. If you are low on A and still showing symptoms, then you can assume that it was not an A toxicity. There has to be a level of common sense.
Is tamoxifen OTC or do you need a Rx?
Absolutely. I made the mistake of waiting for over 3 weeks to go to the doctor and I ended up with tachycardia so severe that I lost circulation in my limbs. I’m surprised my heart didn’t stop it was beating so fast.
Hypervitaminosis A has been shown to cause thyroid enlargement and it has been shown to cause the folluclar cells to become abnormal. Ironically, it causes the thyroid to produce less thyroid hormone. But, the thyroid keeps a rather large store of hormones in it and when it enlarges it dumps this into the bloodstream.
I ended up with severe hyperthyroidism/thyroiditis. Scans showed it to be inflamed, enlarged, and that it developed two nodules. One is subcentimeter and is not likely to be malignant. But, the other one is larger and has to be watched to make sure it isn’t actually cancer. They put me on a beta blocker to keep the tachycardia from happening again.
The numbers are finally starting to normalize after several months. But, the endocrinologist said it can take 6 months to a year to really normalize once it happens.
Make sure you go to the doctor to rule out other things first. This is important.
When all this started up on me back in May, it presented itself as a panic attack. I had an EKG which came back normal. I still have anxiety and now they have me so worked up about blood pressure and things like that that every little flutter or cramp that I feel I think is heart related but it is mostly digestion.
The MRI/A and carotid ultrasounds came back good with the exception of sinus inflammation. Now I can be treated with Active Release Therapy.
I’ve noticed some improvement regarding visual disturbances and I have seen that hair fall out in the shower has diminished. For a while there it was constant for several months. That could be the Vitamin A working its way out or it could be the change in season.
That’s what sucks about this…no concrete answers. You just have to monitor it.
Rick,
Mine too started in May. And as a panic attack! So scary. I am glad I am alive. I had NO idea it was from VitA! So I kept eating it a lot of it! Urg.
I had a consistent Flutter on my heart ALL the time and heart was achy but now seems to be fading yet comes on with anxiety. But IS fading. Yours too will fad. I know it. Try Soaking in Epsom salt. Amazon has a 30lb bag. that really helped my muscles to relax.
SO Happy to hear a good report with the MRI. I know you will get better And better with each day! I know it!
What did you think about going to the gym and sweating it out? That is what helped my pressure in the brain which was a killer unable to think!
Rick, Does your immune system seem low?
Mine seems SO low like I could catch any sickness.
Sam…I am thinking of you hope you feel better too.❤
Brain- I appreciate all your advice. It really is helping!
Hi Julie, I was going to the gym and using their sauna for 40 minutes once a week but would come out feeling worse than when I went in so I stopped. Massive headaches the rest of the day!
I was just at the gym. I was talking to the guy at the front desk. Things seemed fine then about 10 minutes in I got a little dizzy. Out of nowhere! I guess I should expect this for a little while but it sucks.
I have Epsom salts but the plug in my tub is broke! Sucks!
I don’t really get sick but I just feel fatigued all the time.
I sent an e-mail to a website called Nutrifacts and asked them about Vitamin A toxicity and if beta carotene would be an issue during detox. This is what they said:
“Dear Rick,
Thank you for your email and for your question.
During vitamin A toxicity, no carotenoids will be cleaved to vitamin A. The body regulates the conversion of beta-carotene and other carotenoids to vitamin A. Therefore, you can continue to eat fruits and vegetables.
Carotenoids are still needed and are very good antioxidants. Retinol (vitamin A) is not an antioxidant.
On the other hand, it is not recommended to take any dietary supplements (multi-vitamins, carotenoids), except with Vitamin D alone.
We hope this helps!
Best regards,
The NUTRI-FACTS Team”
Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Agree? Disagree?
Thank you for sharing the information. I need to read it a couple times.
With the Epsom salt you can make a paste and put it on your heart where it is fluttering. That is what I did and It slowly healed. I was soaking 4x a day I know crazy BUT I could not get out of bed because of sever fatigue. The baths helped me So much.
I tried that last night and all I got was soggy epsom salts! The recipe I used did not work the way they instructed. Will look for another recipe.
I had my eye exam yesterday and my eye doctor was very receptive to the A toxicity and told me to avoid A, monitor symptoms and see if new symptoms for deficiency star to crop up. Then I’ll know I’m clean and start eating foods with A or beta carotene again.
Also, when I was taking all that vitamin A, I developed symptoms of Crohn’s. I developed a really itchy anus and polyps inside the anal canal (sorry, I know that’s gross).
Now, if I am exposed to even smaller amounts of beta carotene, this comes back with a vengeance. I’m hoping this goes away after I dump enough of the stored retinol.
Hey everyone,
My doctor tested my Vitamin A levels — and a Lyme’s Disease test — and everything came back normal. My doctor agrees that even though it is normal, does not mean there is no toxicity. She said to let it play itself out and see what happens in the next couple of months. So I am doing as Brian suggested and get to a virtually A-free diet, see if symptoms improve then go back in three months and get labs again. I suppose that if at that point the A comes back normal, then there is still A in my system. If it comes back low, then it is not a toxicity and time to put foods back into the diet with A and Beta Carotene.
I am leaving soon for an MRA/MRI on the brain and a carotid ultrasound to rule out any other possibilities for brain pressure.
Rick,
Because all of my symptoms being neurological with horrible and sensitive eye sight, memory loss, forgetfulness, pressure in my head, headache I too had an MRI to rule out anything going on in my brain. You will do great. Put something over your eyes and prepare for loud noises. It came back normal. My doctor also tested for vit A in my blood and it came back normal too.
My doctor said it takes TIME because it is fat soluble and that one of the symptoms of vit A toxicity is a swollen brain.
What I have been focusing on is Brian’s diet NO VitA, lots if fluids- green tea, cruciferous vegetables and detoxing foods like cilantro, artichoke hearts, onions, garlic. I am a nursing momma so I have to watch myself with food.
(cauliflower and Daikin radish have zero vitA)
I am also going to the sauna and sweating it out.I truly believe the sauna has helped a ton. It help take away my headaches and pressure in my neck.
Julie,
Got this a little after the MRI/A. 30 minutes in that cavity, never had a problem getting MRIs in the past but this one had me anxious the second they slid me in there. Took 5 minutes to calm my heart down…the beat could be felt right down my left side to my hip it was racing so bad. They usually give me music to listen to but they didn’t. I just kept saying in my head “I am safe and secure”. I came home with a blistering headache that lasted most of the day.
I am following Brian’s advice as well. Will ask for labs in a few months to see where my levels are. My doctor, osteopath and chiropractor have all said the same thing and that is to ride it out and not to eliminate that this is a toxicity to Vitamin A. My doctor is impatient because symptoms aren’t going away as fast as she believes they should. I’ve already seen a few issues with my eyes improve a little. Not great but small things. But the pressure and headache just drain any energy I have and it hits my chest and digestion, too. Lots of stuff lately around the heart area that spooks me.
Hi Julie. My name is Ashley and I am feeling the same way that most everyone here is feeling but I am also having so much anxiety. Any chance your back to normal now?
Lori, thank you so much for your post! I am currently dealing with issues of high cortisol (pretty much high all day!) and insomnia due to it. I began a protocol in Nov. 2016 in a magnesium group I joined and it includes using desiccated liver pills and CLO. I felt great until around May when I suddenly felt increasing fatigue and just a blah. I have landed myself in a place now where I feel my adrenals/hormones/thyroid are off balance and I feel awful. I came across your blog post about vitamin A toxicity being your root cause to high cortisol. I think this is me! I have low potassium on a hair tissue mineral analysis and remember reading somewhere that potassium is necessary for the liver to process vitamin A properly. I just know I have never felt so bad in my entire life and have gone from being a woman who loved to run and exercise several times a week to one who is pooped most of the time. My symptoms are terrible brain fog and a feeling daily like I am hungover even though I haven’t had a drink since last October. I have odd soreness in my calves that seems to be helped some by eating lots of potassium daily. I just feel like my brain is almost too big for my skull and have sensations of vertigo and dizziness. It finally dawned on me that the liver pills and CLO were the culprits so I stopped them for a few weeks and felt a tad bit better. But I started the liver pills again for about one week (starting a couple weekends ago) and suddenly feel terrible and like I’ve taken 10 huge steps backwards. I restarted them because I was told my vitamin A level was low (38) and I was needing B 12 for anemia. So now I’m pretty sure the vitamin A is the trouble. I had also started 5-HTP at the same time I restarted the liver. But I can’t imagine it could have raised my cortisol in one week to make me feel this terrible again. I hardly slept at all these past three nights due to the feelings of adrenaline rushes and banging heartbeat and internal vibration feelings and nervousness. Do you have any advice for me on the high cortisol connection? I am so exhausted and feel positive about getting better but it is just SO HARD. I have felt this summer like I am dying! Thank you for any encouragement or advice you can offer. I am so thankful I found your blog piece because I knew something on that magnesium plan made me sick but I wasn’t sure what because it all was very natural! Thank you and I am so glad to read here that you feel better!! It gives me hope.
Laura, I was also a part of the magnesium group I believe you’re referring to, and it is the source of my troubles also. I started waking up last month with internal shaking (I’d been taking CLO on and off for months) and the only thing that helped was supplementing vitamin D and stopping all other daily supplements including vit A fortified dairy products as the retinyl palmitate would set off my symptoms again. At one point, taking magnesium would even make me shake so I had to stop taking it. I’d also like to note that last month my vit D level was in the low 20’s. I’m so curious to know if other people have been experiencing these terrible symptoms from that protocol also. I hope you start to feel better soon!
Amanda I am so sorry to hear you are having trouble too! I wish I never came across that group! Thank you for the tip about vitamin D. I don’t supplement and my level seems to run around 30. I may try it for a week or two and see if it helps. I recently joined a couple groups on FB and there are many people there who arrived there because they grew ill from the mag group plan!! I had to stop magnesium like you mentioned. I hope you feel better! Thank you so much for your reply!
Laura & Amanda! MAG pals. ♡ I’m ‘sick’ now, too, and highly suspect too much retinol. I was using CLO, desiccated liver capsules, eating retinol-rich foods like butter, cream, eggs…. Tooday is Day 12 of dizziness/nausea/double vision/sense of taste is way off and even water tastes weird/headache/wretching (though did not yesterday)/sleeping&resting a lot/balance is off somewhat and sometimes. Feeling worthless!
Are you still in the FB group? We should connect there., maybe. I want others to be very aware of how easy this can happen. I already said something and one individual replied, “maybe, maybe not,’ as if he didn’t think it was possible. Grrrr. I would like to get better! Oh my goodness, I seem to cause all my problems….. B6 toxicity, diagnosed 2015, and now this! At first I thought it was my MS flaring., but while I’ve experienced diplopia three times before, I’ve never felt this way. Maybe I can find you in the group if your first name is the same as here. I’ll search.
Joni
Yes, my cortisol was up too! I think that’s a big part of why I felt so terrible. Mine is back in the normal range now. I hope you feel better soon! It takes time, but you’ll get there 🙂 Stay positive 🙂
The thing that troubles me the most about this is that your Vitamin A levels were in the normal range. Low normal but normal nonetheless. IDK why your naturopath would recommend upping your A so much when simple things like adding eggs, more butter, sweet potatoes and carrots to your diet would like have been the safer and more moderate approach.
Yes, I wish I had done my own research before trusting his recommendations 🙁
There are a couple of points in my study of the literature here that I need to bring up.
One is going to probably freak you out. But, don’t take it as fearmongering or anything. It is just something I picked up in the literature. There are a few researchers who postulate that it might be possible that there are delayed effects caused by hypervitaminosis A that occur long after the vitamin has left the system. There is nothing definitive on this yet and I have yet to see any case reports involving a regression in patients after stopping the vitamin. But, it is hypothetically possible to permanently alter cell signaling which can lead to a cascade of effects that cause problems later. Just something to look out for.
Two is to be very careful with exercising. Fat loss will cause rises in blood-retinol concentrations as you burn more fat. This will speed up the excretion of the vitamin A, but it will also worsen your symptoms and increase the damage done in the short-term. My memory loss and confusion come back after having been really active that day.
I can definitely verify this.
The excessive quantities of retinol are released in catabolic states, as it’s stored in a somewhat abnormal manner. I.e. in normal fat reserves, and not the stellate cells or hepatocytes of the liver.
Since I seem to be the only one here investigating this track I just thought I’d mention it:
For acute toxicity symptoms I have found Capsaicin to be incredibly effective.
It only works when you have excess retinol in your blood though, and doesn’t significantly affect tissue levels.
I discovered this after noticing that all CYP inhibitors seemed to make all symptoms worse.
Green tea. Most spices. And others.
Capsaicin does the opposite.
It induces CYP which metabolizes free retinol.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22648626
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19594405
It provides quick symptom relief when you most need it. When experiencing cranial pain joint pain and facial flushing, these symptoms were quickly alleviated in my case.
How to administer it safely:
There are supplements on iHerb.com. Such as habanero and chili extracts.
But I have found the most convenient way to be just consuming raw chillies. Spicy ones.
Anyhow,
It doesn’t significantly affect chronic va toxicity symptoms as in my case.
I will therefore (safely) be researching substances with the same mechanism of action as Phenobarbital for faster clearance.
“New pathway for retinol metabolism in liver microsomes.”
https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.jbc.org/content/260/9/5228.full.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjf3byMvbvWAhWibZoKHQ0NDtMQFghKMAg&usg=AFQjCNEts4n8jTESj1uh6qSnKBsoCjnxNA
(Using other CAR agonists. Not PB itself. Such as toremifene and tamoxifen.)
I still believe the body doesn’t spontaneously clear excess va out of its tissues. Since it was once a scarce nutrient, just like calories and fat.
But as the research shows, clearance and depletion can be significantly accelerated. If the right mechanism of action is utilized.
If there are any significantly positive results I will report back.
Sam,
Thank you for sharing your insightful information. It’s funny you mention green tea. I started drinking this last week…ordered a batch from silk road. I was getting a terrible headache in the evening and at bedtime. I brushed it off that it was just caffeine withdrawal from the morning cup but you may be on to something. It’s a distinct headache, since using topical retin-a on my face for nearly 2 years. I’m going to stay away from it for now.
It’s been nearly 2 months since I stopped putting Retin-A cream on my face, I thought I was feeling better but I hit another wave this week. I mostly start to feel panicked for no reason and just awful, psych wise. Seems to be worse at night and makes me question everything, including my sanity. This site is probably the only thing keeping me calm and patient about this.
I discovered something new myself through this unfortunate process.
Many personal care products i.e.: sunscreens, moisturizers/primers, foundations/makeup etc contain retinol or retinyl palmitate (there are various names for vitamin A but these are the most common). I’m at such a sensitivity point, that if I put anything on my face that contains retinyl, I can tell a few hours later. It’s insane. Many of the products I was using at home contain retinyl, mostly my favorites. I literally just figured this out over the weekend, so hoping this was the cause of the wave and I can go back to feeling myself again.
I tried contacting the companies to find out how much actual IU of vitamin A is in their product…one company said that they were unable to give me the information. The other company, I’m still waiting for a response.
The skin care/personal care industry is loosely regulated…I had no idea this was going on. Completely unacceptable. We should know exactly what we are putting on our skin. Read your labels, scary.
I hope that you are feeling better and thanks for sharing.
Cole
Hi Cole,
Do you have any idea where I can find the other chemical names for retinol in cosmetic products? I’ve been looking for a while but unable to find them.
Many thanks,
Sarah
Hi Sam,
As I have had hypervitaminosis which has led to ongoing symptoms (most worryingly the progression of what very much seems to be bone loss) but including flaky skin, bone pain, vision problems etc, I was wondering if you had found any more research pertaining to VA elimination?
My endo told me that as my calcium levels are normal I cannot have chronic hypervitaminosis yet I am still incurring the symptoms so I can only conclude that unless it has induced some kind of cell-signalling that will continue to run wild wrecking havoc on my body despite low VA, I must still have some VA in there.
I was told to supplement with Zinc and the problems are still occurring, albeit, I think, more slowly. Alcohol and full-fat dairy seems to exacerbate.
ANY updates much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Sarah
P.S. I also think we should start some kind of Facebook group because from my internet research, this has blighted many peoples’ lives and together, we can more quickly awaken the medical community and find some kind of resolution.
Thank you Brian! Have you come across studies showing liver damage several years post? I remember I came across a study that showed long term effects on patients (both those who took high doses for short periods of time and low doses over many years). It showed that many years post, patients had fibrosis and cirrhosis of the liver 🙁 Do you think this is something that may be an issue for us later in life? Or would our livers regenerate enough that it shouldn’t be?
Lori, I just realized that I wasn’t clear.
The delayed effects that might be seen years or decades later involve the brain, not the liver. There is some speculation in the literature that excess vitamin A might set off a chain of events in the brain that is unstoppable. But, there is no hard evidence to support this yet so no need to get scared. It’s just something to keep an eye on.
My opinion is that if your brain progressively reverts back to normal over time, that this hypothetical “delayed process” is unlikely to be occurring. I don’t think the brain would heal itself and then suddenly degenerate later. At least, not because of the vitamin A.
The brain damage is really all coming from excessive oxidative stress. If you remove the vitamin A and minimize the oxidative stress going forward with a diet rich in antioxidants and low in polyunsaturated fat, your brain is unlikely to be harmed further.
My memory loss comes back if I eat too many things that are prooxidants, especially in the presence of excess vitamin A. This effect is diminishing over time so that I can handle more and more prooxidants without problems. This is how I am measuring my recovery.
And, you are welcome! I will continue to update you as my research progresses. Unfortunately, it will take years as I am still just a grad student and will not be able to test my vitamin A hypothesis until I get my own lab.
Dear Brian,
Thanks for the info! I was recently diagnosed with Papiliedema and Pseudotumor Cerebri because of suspected vitamin A toxicity. The only point I disagree with you on is that retinoic acid isn’t a possible culprit – mine was caused by topical retinoic acid that I ordered from India and a Retin A prescription that I used for 4 years.
One of the treatments for PTC is weight loss, and I’m glad that you agree that symptoms could get worse before they get better once you start burning fat – I’m experiencing this now.
AD,
I don’t recall saying that retinoic acid isn’t a possible culprit. If I did, I mistyped. Retinoic acid is one of the most toxic forms of vitamin A and will cause much more damage than even retinol or retinal will in excess. One of the big problems with overdosing on vitamin A is that the body will excessively convert retinol into retinoic acid and this is the molecule that does the most damage because it is so unstable.
Good advice on the pseudotumor cerebri. I believe this may be the most dangerous symptom of vitamin A toxicity and could have long-term consequences even after the vitamin A has left the system because it weakens the neurons and their ability to resist further oxidative challenges (this has been shown in several studies). Everyone here who has overdosed on vitamin A needs to pay close attention to their mental faculties and take extra care of their brains for the rest of their lives.
Increased intracranial pressure as seen in pseudo tumor cerebri inhibits turnover of the cerebrospinal fluid which can lead to downstream effects that inhibit production of cerebrosprinal fluid by the choroid plexus. This lack of turnover can cause a buildup of toxic metabolic byproducts in the brain that are normally cleared out by the turnover of cerebrospinal fluid.
If it is severe enough, shunting or other treatments are necessary to prevent irreversible brain damage.
I believe I had this although I was not tested nor treated because my doctors were incompetent morons who had to Google what hypervitaminosis A was and only read the Wikipedia entry after doing so. They told me I should be back to normal within a few weeks without even looking at my brain.
My brain is slowly healing. It has been a year with zero vitamin A intake and I do believe it will take about 3 more years before all of the vitamin A is gone. I hope there isn’t any permanent brain damage.
My memory still suffers a bit from time to time. But, my ability to memorize (I was born with an unusually good memory) has slowly started to return to normal, assuming I stay away from both vitamin A and heavy metals (namely inorganic iron, inorganic copper, and aluminum). These metals potentiate the toxicity of vitamin A. I made the mistake of taking an iron supplement during the initial stages of my toxicity and the symptoms were so frightening that I don’t even really know how to put them into words. A few hours after taking the iron pills, it felt like my train of thought was skipping over parts of the brain (literally, physically) and like my brain was physically spinning inside my skull. This was about 3 weeks after stopping the vitamin A, so I still had a lot of vitamin A in the system. The next morning after taking that iron, my memory was totally shot. I couldn’t remember what I had just read, where I had just gone, or what I had just done and this lasted for months.
Everyone here should avoid any supplemental metals or any food that is fortified with them. Only metals that are naturally present in the food before processing are safe.
I forgot to mention that exposure to inorganic metals should pose no problem once the vitamin A toxicity is completely resolved. I took metal supplements prior to overdosing on vitamin A with zero problems.
One other thing to mention is that excess retinol may (probably does) alter intestinal permeability as well as the permeability of the blood-brain barrier. Normally substances like aluminum are poorly absorbed. But, it may be that excess retinol alters the absorption characteristics so that inappropriate absorption of these metals occurs.
This should resolve once the vitamin A is all gone.
Brian-Vit B1 (thiamin) is a natural carbonic anhydrase inhibitor. It slows down the production of cerebrospinal fluid. An excessive amount of cerebrospinal fluid causes idiopathic intracranial hypertension. There are water soluble forms, regular B1 and fat-soluble, Sulbutiamin and benfotiamin. You can actually take a pretty high dose of the B1, its similar to azetazolamide (diamox). The fat-soluble cross the blood brain barrier, but I’m not sure what it does to a vit A compromised liver. You will be excreting high levels of sodium bicarbonanate, so it’s important to monitor your alkalinity and take potassium (or coconut water). I hadn’t seen this mentioned yet, so I thought I’d add.
One reason you might still be experiencing toxicity symptoms is that you are consuming a significant amount of polyunsaturated fat (PUFA) and/or inorganic metal ions such as copper or iron.
I tried taking an iron supplement in the middle of my toxicity and it made the symptoms so much worse that I thought I was going to die.
PUFA are extremely unstable and prone to lipid peroxidation. Metal ions not in food (so supplements or drinking water) are prone to accept electrons. PUFA and vitamin A are similar in structure and both are very unstable. Both are electron rich and will donate electrons, particularly to oxygen. Free metal ions accept the electrons and speed up the process by donating them subsequently to oxygen. This creates the superoxide radical and splits the PUFA or vitamin A into toxic byproducts. The superoxide goes on to produce peroxynitrite. These are reactive oxygen species and will kill cells.
Get bottled water and stay completely away from all supplements containing metals. Look at your diet and see how much PUFA you are consuming. Generally, PUFA become toxic at 4% of calories or more. 2% is the ideal intake which would equate to about 6-11 grams total on a 2500 calorie diet. Eliminate most vegetable oils except coconut oil. Macadamia nuts are relatively PUFA free as is beef fat.
My diet literally is lean chicken breast (don’t eat chicken thighs because they are high in vitamin A), potatoes, macadamia nuts, blueberries, and water. That’s it for now. Been doing this for a few months.
Thanks.
I see what you’re saying.
Iron aggravates the problem.
And PUFA.
There is for example MDA which is a substrate for the same dehydrogenases as VA. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malondialdehyde)
Also beef seems to aggravate it. While chicken does not.
And I do not consume any supplements whatsoever.
The only non food item is coffee, a cup upon waking. Might it contribute in any direction?
I’ll copy some of your diet. Thanks for the prescription.
But definitely not potatoes. That triggered my symptoms the other day.
Potatoes actually has VA. As does blueberries. (Nutritiondata.com)
Something I found to mostly alleviate the symptoms was interestingly enough “Omeprazol” which I used a few days. Discontinued though, too damn depressing.
What is your take on fasting? Helpful or not?
And if not potatoes, what would you use in place of it?
Rice? Wheat? Beans?
White potatoes have no vitamin A. I think you are thinking about sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes have an excessive amount of beta carotene and I avoid those like the plague!
https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&source=hp&q=white+potatoes+calories&oq=white+potatoes+calories&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0j0i22i30k1l3.25.4524.0.4609.23.18.0.0.0.0.559.2856.0j5j5j1j0j1.12.0….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..11.12.2854…0i20k1.0.i9ZvERJhe8w
Hey Brian,
Not sure if you are addressing me or not because your post doesn’t appear as a reply under anyone’s post. For me, I am a beef and chicken person — I prefer the thigh and drumstick to the breast. I looked up the content of VA in both meats and found nothing. Are you saying to eat the breast because it is leaner and to avoid the fat?
I consume no PUFAs at all. Most of my fat comes from the food. I’ll cook with olive oil PAM or olive oil, or butter. I’m on a low carb diet and really do not consume starchy carbs like sweet potatoes.
Question — who the hell do I see to get a true Dx on this? I suspect my primary doctor will know nothing about this and send me on a merry go round to neurologists, cardiologists for MRIs, dopplers and CAT Scans.
Thanks.
Good luck with doctors. When I was in the ER, the doctor actually had to Google hypervitaminosis A because he didn’t know anything about it. I knew far more as a biochemist.
PUFAs are naturally present in a lot of foods. Olive oil has 1 gram per tablespoon. Butter has .4 grams per tablespoon as well as roughly 350 IU of vitamin A per tablespoon. If you are cooking with butter, you are not vitamin A-free.
The vitamin A content of chicken thighs is variable. The brands I see here in Michigan all have about 400 IU per 4 oz. serving, although I have seen some brands with 0% listed on the label.
I prefer the taste of the drumstick and thigh as well. But, taste is irrelevant to me now. It is too dangerous to risk consuming vitamin A at this point. The fat in chicken is also inferior because it is quite high in PUFA. As is the fat from Pork.
“When I was in the ER, the doctor actually had to Google hypervitaminosis A because he didn’t know anything about it. I knew far more as a biochemist.”
Hah! I just experienced the same thing with an endocrinologist who reviewed my list of supplements and didn’t know 90% of them, ie. Lysine and Niacinamide (Is that like Niacin?)
I don’t do much with olive oil despite the health claims…there’s just little use for it in my diet. And butter is something I use occasionally.
Brian and Rick,
Thank you both for your comments! I am learning a lot. Thank you.
Yes my doctor ordered me an MRI and had no idea about vit.A toxicity or FCLO.
Brian: can you please give me your thoughts about muscle twitches. I have experienced ALL of the other symptoms like Rick But also experience muscles weakness as well as muscle twitches!
I seen muscle twitches are a side effect to high Mercury??
What are your thoughts and thank you!
Julie,
Sorry for the late response. There are so many things that can cause muscle twitches. You need to get checked by a medical doctor. Most causes are benign, so I wouldn’t worry too much.
I complained to an orthopedic doctor about muscles twitching. He suggested it may be a potassium issue.
Thank you Brian. I did have lots of blood work done and my potassium, electrolytes, calcium all came back normal. I did not know if the muscle twitches had something to do with vitamin A toxicity or mercury from my Cod liver oil.
Hi again,
Quick request:
Lori can you please remove my last name from previous comments?
Sorry about that. It was autofill.
Brian:
I see your logic. Yes. Absolutely.
The hypervitaminosis is aggravated by anything that causes liver damage. And vice versa.
The best course of action is to 1. Minimize liver damage while 2. Minimizing VA intake.
It’s obvious to me aswell.
But it did not work.
I only resort to this other sort of reasoning because I did exactly what doctors told me and what you are advising me to do.
I subsisted on a completely VA free diet for more than 6 months.
And with every attempt to reincorporate other foods, came also toxicity.
That’s why I am researching and hoping for another way. Because I see no other option that I haven’t already tried.
I will continue to minimize my intake of the nutrient while researching other safe ways of alleviating the problem.
Thanks for the advise and expertise. I appreciate it.
And Brian:
Can you post the exact diet you used to recover?
I’ll give it a go for a while. As long as I can at least have Chicken!
no problem 🙂
Something I wanted to ask — I haven’t seen it posted here but has everyone here had a medical confirmation that you have VA toxicity or is it a correlation = causation thing?
The toxicologist I saw made the diagnosis based on symptoms and the amount of vitamin A I was taking. He said that the vitamin A blood level test was nearly useless because it is not an accurate representation of the amount of vitamin A in your system.
As for the alcohol dehydrogenase, this enzyme is produced by the liver. Hypervitaminosis A causes liver damage which is likely to inhibit the production of this enzyme. This is why retinol-binding protein levels decrease as you become more toxic which seems counterintuitive. Taking a drug to force the liver into producing more of this enzyme could be quite risky. On paper, it seems like it might be a good idea. But, things don’t always pan out as they do on paper. I would consult with a doctor before trying anything and ask about what the risks are.
Also, it appears that Tamoxifen might be associated with liver damage itself. I think longterm use is more likely to cause it than short-term use. But, still, if you try something like this, you should be cautious and have your liver enzymes checked during the therapy. http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v25/n2/full/0801488a.html
Wow. I just read this blog post, which was posted years ago, and assumed the discussion would be dead by now. But apparently this is a rampant problem. And there is very little discussion of it online.
Anyhow:
Another victim here, reporting in!
I acquired VA toxicity 4 years ago now, at the age of 23.
Yes, diagnosed by a doc after blood tests and a physical examination.
I am now 27, 4 years later, and still suffering.
This problem has lowered my quality of life by at least 50-75% and done so during a part of my lifetime that had the most ponential (ages 23 to 27).
Cause:
Eggs. Chicken liver. Cod liver oil. Multivitamin (high VA content). High intake of dark leafy greens (frozen spinach).
Symptoms:
Facial flusing. Dry flaky skin. Weight loss. Muscle loss. Decreased appetite. Irritability and concentration problems. Inability to sleep. And the list goes on.
And the symptoms still persist.
I have gone from above average in many respects (athletics work academics relationships and social status) to far below. To general misery.
Anyhow, this post is for two purposes:
1. To inform.
If anyone experiences symptoms of VA toxicity:
For christ sake: Stop consuming it while you can.
Never use it again once you have experienced any symptom whatsoever.
Really.
Better safe than dead. Is it worth the risk? No.
And the second purpose of the post:
2. Constructive collaboration:
Has anyone found any way of facilitating recovery?
If so, please post it. Don’t keep it to yourself.
What I have found to alleviate symptoms the most has been:
1. No or minimal intake of VA.
Also minimal intake or fat. As high TGs aggravate toxicity. And high fat increase absorption.
2. Intermittent fasting.
Of any kind. Generally skipping breakfast is what keeps me going and free from symptoms until I have any meal.
3. Capsaicin.
Induces CYP which catabolizes retinol.
May also damage the liver at high doses.
I therefore discontinued it.
If anyone has suggestions for how to recover faster, please post it.
Sorry to take up space on your blog Lori.
I just felt obliged to chime in since hypervitaminosis basically has costed me my life and my post might deter someone from overconsuming on this this poison.
All the best people, and hope you all recover.
Sam
P.s.
Does anyone have any ideas of how this information can be used?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3819877
Phenobarbital can induce VA depletion, increasing the normal vitamin a elimination rate up to 900%.
I am about to try something with a similar mechanism of action for the purpose of VA depletion.
No worries, it is harmless and a common medicine.
Just sharing here in case anyone would express interest.
I would nor worry about eggs as there is so little in them. IDK about triglycerides. I eat a high fat diet and my TG’s are in the normal range. I think what has to happen is to just let the body remove it from the system in its own time.
Are you saying capsaicin helps or harms?
Ok I guess the responses vary between individuals.
Eggs definitely trigger symptoms for me.
Nausea. Skin flaking. Facial flushing. Painful bones and joints. Etc.
And the intracranial tension.
Capsaicin helps alleviate Acute toxicity.
As it induces CYP (mainly cyp3a4) which catabolize retinol.
It activates the same detoxification via PXR as excess retinol naturally does, but at an increased rate.
But it does not alleviate chronic hypervitaminosis. As it’s stored and not circulating retinoids that are excessive.
I believe my symptoms have to do with having low vitamin d levels and the excess vitamin A exacerbated the problem.
Can we email? I too agree with your theory and I just want to get better, like yesterday. It would be nice to talk to someone one on one. [email protected]
Sam,
Biochemist here. I advise not to do this therapy with the Phenobarbital. Yes, it will cause the liver to release the vitamin A much more quickly. However, this will lead to much higher blood concentrations of free vitamin A and it is this free vitamin A that causes the damage. I think it will make your symptoms much worse. Believe it or not, you actually want as much of the excess vitamin A bound up in the retinol-binding proteins inside the liver.
When a person overdoses on something like vitamin A, there are two things that can happen. 1. They take enough to cause excessive storage in the liver which damages the liver but leaves a lot of the other systems relatively unharmed. Or 2. They take enough so as to overwhelm the liver’s storage capacity, leading to vitamin A levels beyond what the body can safely process which damages other organs such as the brain. You appear to have done the first thing. I, and some of the others on here did the second thing. This is why my symptoms were so severe that I was crying uncontrollably for weeks and had severe memory loss.
My biochemical opinion is that you will artificially induce the toxicity of number 2 by using Phenobarbital to override the liver’s release of the stored vitamin A.
As for what to do about the toxicity, avoiding vitamin A and beta-carotene completely is necessary for sure. I still can’t even tolerate small amounts of beta-carotene or retinol after 4 months. I literally only eat lean chicken breast, potatoes, blueberries, and macadamia nuts right now. I always check packages to make sure they say 0% vitamin A.
Oh, and Lori. I must also apologize for having sort of taken over your blog. But, I am obsessed with vitamin A now and plan to make this my area of study as a principal investigator in the lab.
Hey Brian, Sam
I am Suffering sine past 1 year , though symptoms have gradually reduced
Brain , thats a great effort . I understand how painful the symptoms are and surely quality of life get worse with this thing.
I have created a slack channel which we can all discuss and keep up with our recovery process . meanwhile brian I am ready to help you with whatever I can so that you can find a faster treatment for this . I think we should all help with your research . For that I have created this slack channel . Please join and keep each other updated with whatever help we can
https://join.slack.com/t/hypervitaminosisa/shared_invite/enQtMjQyNTY3Mzc4MTQ5LTExODUwYjVmZTc1NTI4YmM2MTg2YjAwY2U2NzgzZDNjNTYxYTc0Y2I5ZjM1NWRlYjNhYmZiOGRlOWVmZjZjZGM
Hello again,
I just threw out my transparent thoughts on the web and expected nothing.
To my surprise, an intelligent qualified response!
Thanks Brian. I appreciate it.
*I was not planning on using Phenobarbital.
After having reviewed the side effects and literature.
I plan on testing Tamoxifen or Toremifene.
Because they induce Aldehyde dehydrogenase, which increases RA synthesis from retinol and retinal.
They are classified as “PB-like inducers” of these dehydrogenases.
And in my situation I have nothing to lose.
Retinol is what is having toxic effects.
Not retinoic acid.
And by inducing an increased rate of conversion to RA, more VA will be lost.
Why?
Because RA is self catabolising. It induces cyp26 secondary to RAR activation which breaks it down.
This has been an obsession for years and I know the biochemistry well enough to at least judge it to be a worthwhile test.
But I expect failure.
*My other organ systems are not intact.
I am severely anemic and experiencing every symptom of renal failure.
I am on the very brink. And 27 years old.
I also experienced most of the painful symptoms of acute toxicity 4 years ago at the onset and still do recurringly.
*Hate to tell you this, but blueberries are not at 0%.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1851/2
But hearing that I’m not alone in following a quite stoic “vitamin a-free diet” makes the process easier.
Advise:
Try black or white beans. They provide most nutrients such as minerals with no identifiable VA amount. The problem with excluding VA seems to be getting sufficient VC and VK.
Sorry Lori for the Hijack.
The traffic might benefit you somehow and the information might benefit someone else.
Thanks,
Sam
Hi again all,
Brian, you seem very knowledgeable on the topic and I respect your opinion.
I will present you with my hypotheses expressed as succintly as possible.
Please evaluate them objectively.
Hypothesis 1:
The human body has not evolved any mechanism for rapid elimination of Vitamin A once storage capacity is saturated.
Why?
Because scarcity has been the norm during evolution.
With Vitamin A, as with other nutrients.
Therefore, to eliminate the nutrient at faster rate, new tools must be developed or current tools repurposed.
Hypothesis 2:
Induction of Aldehyde dehydrogenase as a mechanism for faster Vitamin A clearance.
I don’t need to explain much more. Just view these two studies.
1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12851412
2. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25354921
1. Adh1 and aldh1a1 are responsible for Vitamin A catabolism.
2. Tamoxifen is an inducer of aldh1a1.
My theory is that Tamoxifen can be repurposed to achieve a faster rate of Vitamin A catabolism.
Why?
Because the liver will only release enough VA to satisfy the needs of retinal and retinoic acid.
By inducing the oxidation of retinal (by raldh1a1) to retinoic acid, we force the body to produce more of it, releasing more retinol from storage sites in the liver.
Excess retinoic acid is not a problem. Since it induces its own catabolism.
(RA activates RAR which causes catabolism of RA.
Studies state this. Not a theory of mine.)
The rate limiting step then, is aldehyde dehydrogenase.
Which we can induce with agents currently available.
What do you think?
Suppose you had an abundant and safe source or tamoxifen and toremifene (a newer and safer agent with same mode of action).
Hi Lori aswell.
Sorry for taking up space here.
Will stop if it’s not encouraged.
Thanks again.
In theory, the liver is only supposed to release enough retinol to satisfy the needs of retinal and retinoic acid. However, I only believe this to be the case when one does not have hypervitaminosis.
I think the liver recognizes when you are consuming the vitamin A and when you stop. My symptoms were only very mild until about a week after I had stopped taking the vitamin. This is when I started going through what seemed like purges. I would have extreme periods of delirium, suicidal ideations, and memory loss. This only occurred after stopping the supplementation.
The body has been shown to do this with oxalates. If you are consuming a diet high in oxalates, it will do everything in its power to get them out of the bloodstream and away from the vital organs by storing them in various deposits. As soon as you switch to a low-oxalate diet, the body begins dumping the oxalates into the blood for removal and this can result in serious symptoms.
I find evolutionary arguments lacking many times when it comes to biochemistry. Sometimes, what seems logical isn’t actually what is observed in the lab.
For instance, we did not evolve consuming megadoses of vitamin D. However, there are studies showing that the half-life of vitamin D in the body increases significantly when you become toxic in a nearly linear fashion. So, there is a mechanism for excreting excess vitamin D even though we evolved getting it from the sun which cannot produce vitamin D toxicity.
There might be a generalized mechanism by which the body recognizes toxicity that covers multiple molecules. But, this is just speculation at this point.
“My symptoms were only very mild until about a week after I had stopped taking the vitamin. This is when I started going through what seemed like purges. I would have extreme periods of delirium, suicidal ideations, and memory loss. This only occurred after stopping the supplementation.”
Oh man, that is happening to me right now! Suicidal ideations. The pressure changes in my head have almost gone back to square one. Memory loss is happening. But I am also feeling pains in my body that only seem to have started in May when all this stuff went full blown on me. I am having vision disturbances that I haven’t had before…a camera flash type thing that leaves me temporarily blinded…especially when I am looking at an LED screen.
Thank you so much for sharing! I hope you feel better soon!!
Hi Sam,
I have had vitaminosis from topical tretinoin and basically the exact same stuff you describe happened to me.
Basically, I’m writing to you because you describe “muscle loss” and this has induced extreme bodily and facial changes in me which I have thought to be bone but I’m interested in the muscle theory.
It’s getting worse.
Before this happened I was a very attractive woman and now I have extremely sunken eyes (they were prominent and now they’re tiny), hollow cheeks and tiny facial/bone structure and my entire frame is much, much smaller.
If you’d care to let me know about the changes you experienced to your body (also I’m trying to find people that I can discuss a way forwards with with this – as I feel there must be something we can collectively do in terms of medical boards and warnings (or in my case litigation as I refuse to believe the manufacturers of Retin-A have no wind of this)) please e-mail me at: [email protected] or just reply to this post.
Thanks a lot,
Sarah
Rick, that doctor doesn’t understand vitamin A metabolism. The amount of vitamin A that is toxic is very different from person to person because each person makes a different amount of retinol-binding protein (RBP). RBP is the protein that encases vitamin A when it is absorbed from food in order to protect it from undergoing uncontrolled reactions that cause cellular damage. Some people make very low amounts of RBP and can possibly become vitamin A-toxic at levels much lower than those for people who make more RBP.
There is a guy on Twitter, not a doctor, who thinks I am too low in A to be toxic. He bragged that he consumed 732K IU of A that day from food. A friend of mine, a nutritionist, pointed out that the guy was most likely getting it from beta carotene. If not, he’s on his way to becoming toxic. I made the same point that you just did — he doesn’t know.
I have gone back into my swiss cheese memory to see where some things started taking place and it all points back to when I started taking the eye support supplement with the Vitamin A. Perhaps not to the extreme that I am now, but issues with fluorescent lights and LEDS like in Walmarts and other stores….doctors offices, etc. Back in April I am in an orthopedic doctor’s office and everything is blurred and double. Driving to that appointment I couldn’t focus on street signs until I was on top of them. That has never happened before.
In June I had my annual eye exam and the doctor found no changes in my eyes and suggested that whatever was causing the eye problems wasn’t due to the eyes.
Brian, you are an expert on vitamin A toxicity! Thank you so much for all the info you share 🙂